麻豆视频

Palle B. Petterson & Laurids Andersen Sonne听
(Translated from Danish)

Laurids:听Hi听Palle, thank you for taking time to talk to me.听听

I have been a big fan of your听book听Cameras into the Wild听[1],听since听I was working on听a听wave film of sorts myself from the idea that a wave crashing on a coast could provide more than enough 鈥渁ction鈥� in a film, and was doing research on听the听history of听wave films. So, it really resonated with me when you in听Cameras听in to the听Wild听described how films听such听as听Rough sea at听Dover听补苍诲听A Sea Cave Near Lisbon, made cinema goers go wild when seeing the images of these waves crashing in on the screen.听听

Could you start by telling me a bit about what you are working听on these听days?听

Palle:听Currently, I am听working in a position, which I have been working in for the past 7 years, where I am in charge of the digital archiving of the Danish Defense Ministry鈥檚 media archive, which is听approximately 110 years old, consisting of about one hundred thousand units which has never been digitized before. This is a big task. We have to go through it all,听create metadata听as to inventory the material properly, make selections of what is important to digitize, and some of it we put on the web.听

Going way back I have always been interested in archives, and all the possible things that are hidden and can be found in them, so that was probably why I was excited about taking this on.听听

Laurids:听Could听you tell听a bit听about your research and how you got into听the research that became听Cameras into the听Wild听and how that fed into your听subsequent听book听Dokumentarfilm听og听danskernes听natursyn听鈥撎齪erioden听1929-1973 (2016)听[2]

笔补濒濒别:听Yes,听it really goes all听the听way back to my childhood, and my interest for our nature.听The film part entered when I was around 10 or 11 where in the village I grew up in, was a course in still photography where you had to shoot and process your own photos. The teacher had a special interest in feature film and especially silent films and showed us Sergei Eisenstein鈥檚听Battleship Potemkin听and such. It was really there that I started making the connection between these two interests of film and nature,听which sent听me on the track of what I really wanted to study during university. So, when I get in to Film and Media studies in Copenhagen, I am already aware of what I wanted to work with, in the combination of nature and film. When听I was听preparing one of my major assignments,听I decided to look at the TV medium and the development of the TV听documentary in the 1970麓s,听primarily in Denmark but also abroad, looking at such figures as David Attenborough and others. When I had written that, I felt there was something in there, and went to the library, and asked one of the librarians if he had any material听on the history of the nature documentary. He thought it was an exciting topic. After听about a week of looking for materials for me, he told me that he had not been able to find much, only a few fragments and scattered articles here and there, but no major听cohesive听work focusing specifically on the early days of nature cinema. There are few books that came out since, but the lack of literature on the subject at the time was what gave me the impulse to start working on听Cameras into the Wild,听which took me almost ten years to research and write.听During the time other books appeared, Greg Mittman鈥檚 book听Reel Nature: America鈥檚 Romance听With听Wildlife on Film,听was published, and others, and I of course took this into account. But at the same听time,听I had my specific focus, which was to dig in to the earliest of the earliest, and to really dig into how nature documentary had emerged.听I really wanted to听get all the way back to the root of the genre. I actually started out building up a听catalog of early nature films,听before I started working in the manuscript. The manuscript becomes my MA thesis, which in turn becomes the basis for the English version of听Cameras into the Wild.听So听it鈥檚 a major research project that I worked on for quite some time. I had been working on the catalog of early nature films, in my first year of Film and Media, so it had already been in progress for five years, before graduating and before thinking about the book project, and approaching the tedious process of translating听it from Danish to English.听

Laurids:听滨苍听Cameras听in to the听Wild,听you write about the connection between听the development of early听cinema听and shifting perceptions in the understanding of nature, could you talk about how to see this coming about?听听

Palle:听That whole topic is actually something that I focus quite a bit on in the subsequent book,听(Dokumentarfilm听og听danskernes听natursyn听鈥撎齪erioden听1929-1973),听where I talk about the connection between the creative development and its dependence on the technological development. Like the development of lighter tripods, where before the heavy setup prevented the cinematographers from really going out in the field.听And where the film essentially was artificial wildlife like shooting in a zoo or some other form of limited area, it enables these to get closer to a real wildlife. The development away from hand cranked cameras to battery powered ones, is also crucial, as you no longer need to be on a tripod to run the camera and keep it steady. And with the perception and skill we have today in听looking听at moving images we are clearly able to see the difference when even looking at the old听nature听films that听succeeded听at documenting听something that was not constructed. My subsequent book spent a great deal of听time on the phenomenon of the 鈥渂lue chip鈥� nature documentary, which is a term that you use when making a large scale produced nature documentary, in per example, in a national park, where you are intentionally leaving out that you might be shooting from a road, and you are leaving out all the human structures that are around. Where you are essentially constructing an image of nature, as some form of pure and undisturbed, without human intervention in the scenery.听There have been many of these kinds of films听made, but it is only something that evolved late in the development of nature films, something that really starts developing after 1929, prompted by technological development.听听

If we then have to look at your question in relation to the changes in perception of nature,听you can see that when we come to the late 20麓s, 30麓s听and 40麓s, then there is clearly a certain way one is treating nature through film. You can see that in the work of Martin and听Osa听Johnson and how they aesthetically come to define a whole period with their perception听of听nature, which is a bit complicated to decipher today. When you look at their work and legacy today it seems like they were maybe not environmentalist, but in their听time听they were maybe some of the people who were, along with听Carl Akeley听and others,听were part of creating an attention to the natural environment and through that also part of development of more national parks, and more preservation听which听led to space where animals could live without our intervention.听听听听听

尝补耻谤颈诲蝉:听How do historical nature documents represent听and construct听a specific way of looking at the natural world, how do you see this manifested?听听

Palle:听It is听very clear that even in听many of听the early films that there is an awareness听of听the need for drama,听and if the film footage does not have that they will create some form of tension to help it along.听You see that in constructions where you听set up a scenario where a lion would fight a tiger, where it would be much more natural to see a lion fighting one of its pray. These construction of narrative and drama happened quite early in the history of nature films, even in some of the early Danish films, like听Lion hunting听(1908), which is a total construction on a tiny Danish island, which is made to create some excitement. But there听is at the time also a difference between the poetic and the dramatic nature films.听And you also see that some nature films of听1910听that have a scientific angle, so early on there听are听different approaches to how to depict nature, and what angle is being used and there are even films that are presenting an environmental agenda.听听

The need for creating tension and听drama, which we still see in plenty of nature films today, is something that can be traced to the very beginning of the medium, and here we are talking 1906- and the idea of nature as something wild, dangerous and uncontrollable is being perpetuated on a parallel track in nature film. In the 1970麓s听it was completely out of control, many of the films in that period portray听animals as some form of killer machines, and to this day there are many production companies that only focus on the highly dramatized, to create excitement in something that in reality is totally peaceful. One听of the key examples is the portrayal of the mountain gorilla, which in reality is听a听very peaceful animal, being depicted as a constantly war faring animal, even if only a miniscule part of its life that it has confrontations with other tribes of gorillas. There were films in the 1980麓s, where it was said explicitly that the mountain gorilla was known to kill human beings, and another where it was stated that they were known to rape women, which is completely out there and untrue. There are some outrageous examples on how听we have听portrayed听the big predators. It is only within the last thirty to听twenty-five听years, we the regular people have been starting to get a more realistic understanding of how it really is with these big predators. That typically has been helped by the fact that either Biologist or Zoologist have been involved in the making of the films, which really makes the difference, as opposed to the lone cinematographer who was looking for drama.听

There are of course many different approaches, but I听see the whole idea of nature as something to be conquered and controlled being represented though the history of nature films,听 which is part of the tensions and divisions between different ideas of making nature films, which becomes more and more obvious as we advance in the history of nature films.听Like when making nature film no longer is only a thing for filmmakers but also something that environmentalists are doing.听听听听

听听听

Laurids: Is there a way to see these representations manifested in contemporary nature film and media, and in the broader perception of nature today?听

笔补濒濒别:听Aside from the construction of drama,听I don鈥檛 think the early nature films has an effect on how we look at nature today, but back then when these early nature films were听presented听in the theaters, there is no question that they have an immense importance in what it was that people saw of nature, and how it was perceived. And some of the things I think that is very explanatory in this, is that when in the films of the Lumiere brothers, Kolb brothers and others, was that when there was a natural scenery, it had a very strong effect on the audience, and they got to see places they had never听experienced听before and they started having a relationship to these places that were entirely unfamiliar to them, places they would never have a chance to go to themselves, like Alaska or Africa.听

So,听I am certain that the films played a role, and made people start thinking in a much broader scale, which had an impact on the way people started thinking about the need for nature preservation.听There were very few preservation areas and the one麓s that existed before these films and films in general, were very small. So,听I think that these preservation听initiatives听were听something that really only picked up when people could see with their own eyes that there听was听an amount of natural habitat that needed to be preserved, so that it could also be experienced听by future generations.听听

Laurids:听In talking about the connection between early nature films and conservation and nature protection effort, I wonder if these were used as political tools?听

笔补濒濒别:听Yes, the early nature films were definitely听used as political tools, but听it鈥檚听hard听to say how much sway they had. But as the field developed, after 1928, it is possible to prove that there are situations where it鈥檚 the images that have done the work and made the difference.听In those situations it has primarily been work that deals with environmental pollution, when it becomes concrete, like seeing fish dying, and I recall there was a case听of an early film about the American Elk听that made a difference in relation to preservation, but I can presently not recall the title.听听听听听听听

Laurids:听Traveling and making recordings of nature was clearly a costly endeavor and appears to be for the most part and at least in the early 20^th听century, a thing for the elite.听

Do you,听in the history of nature documentaries,听see a relation to western听expansion /听extraction听/ colonialism听补苍诲听the idea of nature as a commodity both as a natural resource and as an experiential resource?听

笔补濒濒别:听If we are talking听broadly about film, then I think it is very clear that film had been a contributing factor to globalization, as we saw more and more of the world, the smaller it听became. The听more you saw an Australian aborigine or an animal from far away,听the more it become something that was part of the collective consciousness and got an understanding for them, so on some level nature film has probably played a role in colonialism, but I can鈥檛 definitively claim that it has,听as I would听not be able to substantiate that.听听听听听听

Even if听Dokumentarfilm听og听danskernes听natursyn听鈥撎齪erioden听1929-1973,听is focused on Denmark,听I also argue that the Danish perception of nature cannot be seen in a vacuum, where the Danes are equally shaped by Europe and the rest of the world and the ideas and films that come from there. Denmark was really just the scope听I听had to limit myself to, even if the tendencies and perceptions were very much the same in the rest of the world. The听publisher,听McFarland, was also interested in publishing a translated version of this book, but I did not have the time or bandwidth to work on it at the time.听听听听听听

Laurids:听I am thinking of the听dichotomy between nature听鈥撎齝ulture听in relation to preservation鈥μ�

Palle:听Yes, even if Denmark was on the forefront of many environmental aspects, and heavily inspired by Germany, there was a clear division between those associations that wanted to preserve wildlife for the sake of wildlife and those who wanted to preserve it for the sake of humans, and that is of course a concern that continues today. There are not that many environmental laws in Denmark that have been drafted for the sole purpose of the wildlife outside the human.听This has changed in the last ten to听fifteen years, but anything before then was really drafted听for us, like the idea of a preservations area, not as preservation for the wildlife but rather to ensure good hunting grounds. You can argue that historically it has been more about creating regulations around giving humans听access to natural areas, as opposed to giving wildlife space and peace without our intervention.听听听听听听听

Laurids:听This seminar is titled Environmental听Futures, so with that in mind, do you think that听there,听in听early nature cinema,听is anything that can tell us about how we got to where we are today and how we are going into an uncertain future?听听

笔补濒濒别:听I think you can derive a lot of conclusions听from听the history of nature documentaries, but听I听think the most crucial thing听to focus听on听is looking at them historically and seeing what it was we were paying attention to at the time, even if they surely also had an effect on perceptions of the natural world. This just becomes harder听to decipher, then showing through what has听been recorded,听what it was we were interested in at a given moment. Even if you can trace the environmental concern all the way back to the beginning, and scattered throughout the history, I find it hard to see how nature film has been part of creating change in the public discourse that can be attributed to film alone. Rather, it鈥檚 a question of creating听different catalysts for social movement, where a film can lead to someone writing a book, and that book maybe makes a politician react to the specific issue and so forth, but it鈥檚 hard tracing these interconnected factors.听Whether the film, the book, the politician and so on is the most important part is difficult to say. They are all intermingled but spread views as rings in the water.