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Welcome to another episode of creative distillation. Your host, Jeff and Brad from the University of Colorado, boulders, Leeds School of Business, discuss entrepreneurship research while enjoying fine craft beverages. Today, we pause our coverage of the reversing the arrow conference to bring you a creative distillation treat our annual Halloween episode. This time it comes with a twist. Instead of Jeff putting brad through another ritual pumpkin beer tasting, we return to one of our favorite locations, pits and stems, to sample some hand crafted fall flavored cocktails created by our favorite bartender, Ethan Decker, joining Brad and Jeff is Bryn Reese, Associate Vice Chancellor for Research and Innovation and Managing Director of venture partners at CU Boulder, in short, Bryn and his group are at the center of tech transfer and new technological developments coming out of CU as you'll hear, there's a lot to be excited about with regards to innovation. Here, tune in to learn more about this, as well as Jeff's horror film recommendations and other thoughts on this spooky season. Enjoy and cheers and happy Halloween. Jeff York 1:31 Welcome to Creative distillation, where we distill entrepreneurship, research and actual insights. I am your host, Jeff York, research director, no Faculty Director. I have new title you do that's very exciting. Another title. It's pretty exciting and scary as well. Brad 1:50 And I'm joined by my co host, Brad Werner from the Deming center. And Jeff, it is great to see you. Jeff York 1:55 It's great to see you, Brad, it's your favorite time of the year, Halloween. I know you, I know you love it and you're excited. And you know, you just were so excited you had to invite your first ever guest that you solicited onto the podcast. Yeah, Brad 2:09 no, I'm really excited about our guests, because with Halloween, first of all, you know how much I love Halloween. I hate it. Brad Jeff York 2:15 loves Halloween. Brad 2:15 I look forward to the day after Halloween because it really kind of starts to line up the holiday season, yeah? And I'm sure you like it too, because every pumpkin beer goes on sale. Jeff York 2:24 Well, I think more of like the first of September lines up the holiday season, because that's when my Halloween celebration starts. Yeah, it does. It goes for a long goes for a long time. You know, it involves the fall and, you know, going to the mountain, seeing the leaves change and and watching nothing but horror movies. Oh, really, you'll be excited about that. You love horror movies just as much as you love Halloween. What are you gonna be for Halloween this year, Brad ? Brad 2:49 Hiding, Jeff York 2:51 He'll be here all week. Ladies and gentlemen, you introduce your guest. Let Brad 2:55 me give it a try. Bryn, first before and you can correct me. Bryn Rees 2:58 This is like letting chat. GPT, tell me about Yeah, Brad 3:03 so, so Brynn is the Vice Chancellor, associate associate Chancellor, Associate Vice Chancellor, okay, Bryn Rees 3:16 Associate Vice Chancellor of Research and Innovation, right? Awesome,which really means that you run tech transfer, we can get into that, but let's go for it for now. Okay, okay, Brad 3:26 so, right, so, but Brynn actually sees all the really cool scientific innovations that come through the university, exactly, right? Really great. And we've had a chance to work together on a few ventures, and the innovation that's coming out of CU is incredible. The program has just gone gangbusters. Since you've been here. How many years now? Bryn, Bryn Rees 3:45 I've been here 15 years. I've been in this role for 10 years, and I can say that I'm in a completely different job than when I started, and it's a completely different ecosystem. Yeah, that's great. Brad 3:54 And actually, data has told us that we are number two in startups. Bryn Rees 3:59 That is correct. You know, there's a lot of ways to look at startups and a lot of types of startups at universities, but one of the ways is to say how many startups came out of the research labs in a single year. And if you look at that metric, then CU Boulder is number two all time. So the most ever was Stanford University, unsurprisingly, right? Fair enough, in 2002 Jeff York 4:19 they do have a slightly larger endowment in the CU. I mean, just, just about a few they Bryn Rees 4:24 do zeros zero, and we did 35 in the last year. So that was, that's amazing. You Boulder, kind of coming out party for startups. But I would definitely say it's one of those, like overnight successes, 10 years in the making, Brad 4:38 right? That's, that's, that's fabulous. So congratulations. It's great for Jeff York 4:40 all of us, actionable insight. I think it's actual insight so Brad 4:45 but because it's Halloween, Jeff, I always bring a taster, and I'd like my taster to say hello. She's a friend of the cast. Emily Iliff 4:50 Hello. My name is Emily, and I am the Marketing Director of creative distillation podcast. Yay. Jeff York 4:57 We're so glad you're here. Liz, good to see you again. Welcome back. Glad to be here as well. All right? And then we have, we have one more guest, yeah, well, this Brad 5:07 is really, really cool, and we are lucky to call him a friend of the show, right? Josh, absolutely. Jeff York 5:11 I am thrilled to be back here at Pitts and stems on. Should we say what route it's on now we will. It's in Boulder. It's in a garage, and if you can find it, then maybe you can also meet Ethan. Yeah, so just Brad 5:27 start knocking on doors. Ethan Decker 5:30 It's Halloween. That does tend to happen. Jeff York 5:33 It's true. So do you usually invite trick or treaters back here into the bar? Ethan Decker 5:39 Most trick or treaters don't appreciate fine cocktails. Yeah, Jeff York 5:42 what we do? And we're thrilled to be here again. Thank you for having us. Thanks Ethan Decker 5:45 for coming back, gentlemen. So Jeff York 5:47 you know, normally for our Halloween episode, we have a fine variety of pumpkin beers, which Brad is a huge fan of and always excited to taste and sample many, many pumpkin beers. And he's been doing this, I think, for three years running now. So if you are a regular listener of creative distillation, first of all, bless you. Please give us a five star review. Put some review in the Apple podcast thingy or the Spotify podcast, whatever you want to do. Just, just do something, but don't do anything less than five stars, because that will not be good. So now, now you're gonna be disappointed because we're not drinking any pumpkin beer this year. Pumpkin beer this year. Brad 6:23 How did that happen? Jeff York 6:24 I don't know. I think it was Emily. I'm pretty sure it was Emily suggested we're Emily Iliff 6:30 doing pumpkin cocktails. We're upping our game. We're becoming more sophisticated. Ethan, Jeff York 6:34 is that true? Ethan Decker 6:35 I would say yes. I would hazard a guess that a pumpkin cocktail order. Oh, cocktail. So bread just Jeff York 6:44 when you thought you'd escaped. Brad 6:46 I really thought walking into Ethan's garage day I was safe. Jeff York 6:51 You're never safe at Halloween, Brad 6:55 this is a nightmare for me. Yeah, this Jeff York 6:57 is gonna be great. It's gonna be great. It's gonna be away like so should we start off with some drinks? Ethan Decker 7:02 Yes, okay, absolutely. All right. Brad 7:04 What do you have in mind, Ethan? Jeff York 7:05 So if you're interested in learning more about the history of pits and stems, you're going to want to go back to Episode 62 in which there is a more elaborate history of this place. And we still won't tell you where it is on there, but it's an amazing establishment, Ethan. You wanna give us abbreviated history of where we are, like a really quick one. Well, my Ethan Decker 7:25 day gig is marketing and branding and brand strategy, but pits and stems is a project of applied brand science. We are boulders best speakeasy, and I like to say that we might have the best cocktails in Boulder, but maybe not. You can only find out by coming I've got a few things on the menu. We've got a bourbon cocktail with some homemade pear vanilla syrup. We've got something else with my wife's homemade apple cider as well. Really, yep, that's called the Covered Bridge. That's bourbon or rye. Like a covered bridge, a Jeff York 8:05 headless horseman might go over and, like, walk your way. Brad 8:10 Never met a Halloween nerd before. Ethan Decker 8:14 I have a drink lined up called dad's cardigan, which is an amaro based cocktail. Some maple syrup, and then you can kind of got something called the Upper Peninsula, which I have developed, which is based with Calvados, which is an apple brandy. Oh my gosh. Bryn Rees 8:30 I mostly don't know the words that you just said, but definitely They sound amazing, especially the homemade Cider. Ethan Decker 8:39 Okay, something with a little homemade cider for you? Brent, yeah, I'll make a couple so you can taste a few different things. Sure Jeff York 8:46 sounds wonderful. Thank you so much. Okay, so Brent, you've been here 10 years at CU what have you seen change and evolve about, like, the entrepreneurship that's happening out of the university? I'm a loyal loss. I don't have a paper to ask you, but I can't, like me slapping a paper down and like, you know, looking at the abstract. We've never, ever done this. I'm loving this. We've never done this. So you are the you have the honor of being Brad's only invited guest, as well as the only person to ever be on creative distillation without a paper to flog. So Bryn Rees 9:16 all of the stats I'm going to mention are not peer reviewed. The statistical significance could be absolutely Brad 9:25 terrible. So Speaker 1 9:26 what has changed? So when I got here at 2009 it was such a different environment. And I would say that the majority of faculty that I would meet, meet with to talk about entrepreneurship, kind of would sometimes look at me like, What do you want from me, you know, like, I think I'm supposed to do this, and I don't really want to do it right. And fast forward to today. I'm just going to start on the, you know, the people, sorry, so many other things have changed, but now I get calls from folks faculty. Who are not even at CU yet. They're coming here in six months or three months, and they're like, I want to know what kind of entrepreneurship resources are here, what kind of programs, what kind of support I've got a startup, or I want to do a startup. So I would say that the culture is completely different, and everything else comes out of that. So I could say, yeah, we've got a venture fund and a startup accelerator and all these cool new programs, right? But none of that means anything if we don't have a culture of entrepreneurship right in the faculty and their grad students and their postdocs. Jeff York 10:29 Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, there are some, like, structural changes that have occurred. But would you say the bigger change has been, like, more cultural, like people just thinking, like, well, this is just sort of normal and something we do. And, I mean, we were also just listed. There was a new thing, yet another ranking, because we needed another ranking, actually, as well. It's pretty interesting. So it's in confess company, yep, Empath, right, yeah, just they did mention the best professor at the University, which I was very happy to see. That was good. Bryn Rees 10:56 Oh yeah, yeah. And that being yourself, yeah, of course, yes. Okay, very good. Jeff York 11:08 Here's something we could get. No, I was really surprised they mentioned me. I was like, what? That's really weird Bryn Rees 11:13 from 80th to 33rd Yeah, exactly, Jeff York 11:15 straight into that 33rd side. So Bryn Rees 11:18 I have read that, and I will say this, there are a lot of universe university rankings of entrepreneurship, or things of measures that are used as a proxy for entrepreneurship that are terrible, yeah, things like issued US patents, which are just very fast. It's just so narrow, right? And so what I like that Fast Company has done is at least try to be a little more holistic. So they've got number of alumni startups, and how much did those how much capital did those companies raise? And something about tech transfer that they didn't really disclose how they were measuring that, and research funding. And so they're trying to kind of look at innovation. Yeah, Jeff York 11:52 they're looking at new systems. Yeah, well, that's why I thought from the ranking, and it's like it was, seemed to be talking more. Was it like the number of startups like, because, I mean, we know that's not necessarily a very like, you know, Brad and I can just go create every student team in our class. We can create a startup. We can have them become an LLC. And that would be a terrible thing for us to do. I mean, it would just be responsible, in my opinion. But, boy, we don't write startups. I Bryn Rees 12:18 mean, ranking, Chase, chasing the ranking does happen, right and but what I love about all our ecosystem is that people don't do that. They're saying, what's the right thing to do to impact the present state, exactly, and the rankings will come because one of the issues with all these rankings is it's like looking, I'm going to get into some physics here. It's like looking at the at a star in the night sky, and you're actually looking back in time, right? The light from that star is traveling. For that star may have long burned out. And the same thing with rankings. If we're looking at how much capital that startups has raised, what did the university do to catalyze that? It happened five years ago, 10 years ago. So when a ranking comes out, I think, well, that's a reflection of CU Boulder and everybody else, five years ago, 10 years ago, and what we're doing today, we're not going Speaker 2 13:05 to know in rankings. That's really a great, a great insight, and scary, actual insight. Jeff York 13:14 I don't know what that was. That is called annihilation, the alien. I didn't quite get that from that. I didn't either, but anyway, that I did think that's that is an interesting insight that most people are probably not aware of. When you look at the university rankings, they come out every year, and you're thinking, Oh, well, so and so moved up. And really, what you're looking at is what happened quite some time ago. And so you gotta start, I mean, for have those effects on those things, you gotta start laying those tracks. Now, I guess it's Bryn Rees 13:41 really pronounced in my field, where we're, you know, we're working actively with folks in, especially in science and engineering, on these early stage ideas for that to become a product on the market. I mean, we're talking 10 plus years, yeah, yeah, Jeff York 13:54 which is amazing, but that's Brad 13:56 deep tech, right? That's deep tech. That's what it is. But deep tech is Bryn Rees 13:59 really freaking cool too, right? To change the world it is. And by the way, if we were looking at that star, and we wanted to know what the star is made out of, like, what the substance that is burning in that star, we could do that with CU technology, just from the Brad 14:13 light, amazing, right? So, when you, when you think about, kind of your 10 years, tell me the the fields that you're really excited about now that maybe that didn't exist 10 years ago. Bryn Rees 14:26 That's a great, a great question. You know, I've a couple of advanced degrees in in science, and yet most of the stuff that I see didn't exist when I was in graduate school. So it's totally new. So a couple of examples of that. Genome engineering has come so far. Before I got into university, entrepreneurship, I worked in pharma, in genomics, right? So cutting edge stuff, but if I think about what we were doing then versus what we can do now, it's just like light years. So as an example, if we wanted to truly cure somebody's disease, that. Was science fiction 10 years ago, 20 years ago, and now you see people with these, you know, congenital disorders. There's something wrong with your immune system. We're not treating that. We're fixing their genes, right? So something has gone wrong with, let's say, their their T cells, and how they can respond to disease, reactive after, yeah, after you have symptoms, yeah, it's incredible, right? So that's an example that just it didn't exist when I started in this field, right? Brad 15:27 I would say actually, the mapping of the genome is probably one of the biggest scientific achievements in my lifetime, right? And we have 100 years to go until we really see what the outcome of that discovery is going to Bryn Rees 15:39 be, absolutely. So the company I was at was GlaxoSmithKline, and we were doing some very cool things in terms of leveraging what was available through the Human Genome Project to say, why do people respond differently to drugs? Why does it work for some people have no effect on others and actually be detrimental to another part of the population? And that was, you know, I was 20 plus years ago, and we're only just now starting to make progress in that really cool Ethan just set Jeff York 16:06 something in front of us. Is this finished? Ethan? Are you still building it? Ethan Decker 16:10 Nope, that is ready to be enjoyed. Jeff York 16:12 Okay, well, I gotta ask you about it. Then Sorry to interrupt. Ethan Decker 16:15 This is called the flannel shirt. It is some blended scotch, homemade apple cider, Amaro Averna, lemon juice, and then a bunch of other little things, like a little bit of maple syrup, a little bit of St Elizabeth allspice DRAM, and then a little bit of Angostura bitters. And I think you're excited about the ice cube. Jeff York 16:36 The Ice Cube is a large square of ice with a flour frozen in it. It's incredible, right? Ethan Decker 16:44 Those are flowers from our garden. Jeff York 16:45 I take a picture like, we gotta taste this. Cheers. Cheers to the flannel shirt. Brad 16:49 Nothing better than a good flannel shirt. Jeff York 16:52 Well, I mean, the aroma is like, immediately evokes like apple orchards and like fall apple picking, kind of leather Brad 16:59 to me, I wasn't this so much more refined than pumpkin beer. Well, Ethan Decker 17:04 the Beer Fest just has a different vibe than a cocktail, right? Yeah, exactly. I Brad 17:09 like the cocktail vibe myself. Jeff York 17:10 Well, pumpkin cocktails coming. So, yeah. So this has got, like, initial greatness, and then, like, get the maple syrup, for sure. I taste the same Elizabeth in there. This is just delicious. The other Ethan Decker 17:24 thing I love about this cocktail is its base spirit is scotch. And Scotch cocktails are a rare yes and B, difficult to create because Scotch is often smoking overpowering. This has a lot of other stout things that stand up to it, and then they all kind of punch each other in the face and blend harmoniously together. But Jeff York 17:45 I do get a little bit of the smoke in the background, just a hint. It's really nice. This kind of gives you that outdoor, fireside kind of fall feeling, least, that's what I'm thinking of. Bryn Rees 17:56 That's a very sophisticated palette. I like it. Jeff York 18:02 What was the foam you put on top? Or the DRAM your top there the DRAM that Ethan Decker 18:07 was some of the homemade apple cider, but it's a foamy apple cider that I've concocted with it. So it's a little bit of a, yeah, an apple cider foam float. Do Brad 18:18 you have apple trees on your ranch? Ethan Decker 18:19 We have a honey crisp. Oh, you do, yeah. We planted it about 15 years ago for anniversary. Fabulous. And it, it probably bears fruit every other year because the springs in Colorado were pretty various. Yeah? Jeff York 18:34 Awesome. Thank you. Ethan Decker 18:35 This is, it was a good year for the apple. Did Jeff York 18:37 you taste this brand? It's Ethan Decker 18:41 The other thing I love about doing this isn't just concocting new things, but using what's around. So when there's fresh mint in the garden, we do a lot of things with mint. Oh yeah, when my wife makes something like elderberry syrup, I use a lot of that. When apples are booming, we make things with apples. Jeff York 19:00 So did you create this cocktail? Ethan, or is this it's one of your own creations. It's Ethan Decker 19:04 a it's based on something I found, but ultimately, I've modified it a bit again to use the local ingredients and to make it a pits and stems. Originally, I Brad 19:15 don't think I've ever had anything Jeff York 19:16 quite like that. I mean, it's the sale. Elizabeth, I've just been drinking so many Tiki cocktails. Elizabeth DRAM immediately evokes like a jet pilot or a zombie or, yeah, Ethan Decker 19:28 or the all spice, yeah, there are a couple things in cocktails that don't play well, right? You know, it's the same way that, like, you know, grapefruit flavor doesn't play super well, or with things. Or pineapple, you know, pineapple stands out so much in your food. So when you have those things, you got to pull them way, way, way back. So in this case, it's maybe a half of a teaspoon right between both cocktails, because you just need that little little scotch. Look at Jeff York 19:55 the flower, but the overwhelming aroma I get from it is the Apple like that seems to come. Cross. Oh, this Brad 20:00 is apple pie to me. Yeah, right. It's Jeff York 20:02 very what I was saying is almost like an apple Tiki cocktail to me, because it's sweet, it's balanced. It's also got that richness on the bottom end that usually get from the rum. But here, oh yeah, it's a Ethan Decker 20:16 challenge to use sweet ingredients and not make a cocktail that's overly saccharine, right? So, Bryn Rees 20:22 so does that have honey in it? Ethan Decker 20:23 This has a little maple syrup, but again, dialed back from a lot of the recipes you'll find, because I think they're overly sweet. So you need a little maple syrup flavor. You need a little apple flavor. And people often, I mean, you hear it in wine all the time, people say this wine is so sweet, and what they really mean is it's fruity, but it doesn't have any actual sweetness or sugar to it. They're Jeff York 20:44 getting that fruit flavor, yeah. Now, considering it was 90 degrees yesterday in Boulder, it's uh but today it's nice and cool. It's perfect. It's love getting into the actual spirit of Halloween. When do you like Halloween? I love Halloween. Yes. Great Bryn Rees 20:59 answer. Nothing is Halloween me, to me, more than being way too cold in some kind of, you know, absurd costume. And it was a nice day, you know, on October 31 in Boulder. And then the temperature drops 1015 degrees, and it's, it's a little challenging. Jeff York 21:18 Now, is this because you go trick or treating with Bryn Rees 21:20 us. I absolutely go trick or treating. I've got a 12 year old and a nine year old. Jeff York 21:25 Because what you were just telling me is like that is, that is, my kids are 17 and 20, so they they go wreak havoc in whatever ways they do. And I just the police don't show up on Halloween. But I so remember so many times we go trick or treating in Boulder, and it'd be like the day before, 80 degrees, sunny, gorgeous. Sure enough, Halloween, like, right about noon, a cold front comes in, or maybe even, like, five o'clock, like, they come in, and it starts like, wind starts howling as it does. It drops to, like, just around, not cold enough for it to actually be like freezing, like, just feel three with wind, and then the snow and rain starts to come. Yeah, that's my Halloween. Brad 22:08 Just like elk hunting. Jeff York 22:11 I got a story about anyway, we won't do that. Okay, all right, so there's been those kinds of changes that have happened over time. Brynn, what do you think? Like? What does the future look like? As far as like, I mean, the entrepreneur, because you have a view that Brad and I, you know, we, we get involved in things across campus. We try to help out, you know, we go to the New Venture Challenge and sit in the very top and do our Muppets thing, yeah, but, you know, but you see, you have, like, a much broader view, like, what are you most excited about in the future, and maybe, where are some of the challenges we face in the university. Bryn Rees 22:42 I mean, forward, I think that Brad, our connection is a microcosm of where the university's going. And if there's one word, where there's opportunity and where we're addressing the current challenge, which is fragmentation and style, yeah, it's integration. And So Brad, we've got. So you're, you're in the College of Business, I'm in a, you know, campus wide group, and we're, we're working together, you know, against all odds, right? That's where, that's where this university is headed, right? Well, so Brad 23:15 for me, Bryn, I'm not an academic, right? So I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been searching out opportunity, right? What would make great businesses, and how do you accelerate and really light the rocket on some of these things? And that's how I found you, right, right through Betsy and some of the things we've done. And I have a company that came out of tech transfer from MIT, so I understand the importance of what this is, and it's just, it's really cool. Jeff York 23:37 What are you guys working on? Like, together? I don't think we've talked about that explicitly, happy on that name. So Brad 23:41 no, so let's talk about some of the classes or some of the teams that came through new venture launch last year. Yeah. Bryn Rees 23:48 So we had Icarus quantum Yep, was one. We had Mesa quantum systems. Was two, right? And we now your class is not a quantum class, but we did have two and Brad 24:03 then a filter company. Oh, that's right. Do you remember what the innovation was? It was a bit, I think it was a very high powered or very improved filter system that could be integrated into a current line of chip manufacturers. Okay, great. Bryn Rees 24:19 I know less about that one. So let's Brad 24:23 right, but so anyway, we have two quantum companies in common, and those companies very different, by the way, but they really have the chance to change the world, both of them in different ways. Bryn Rees 24:33 Yeah. And what I think what is common between the two is a highly motivated, engaged, recent PhD grad who's just got a ton of hustle, great attitude, and is going to be the differentiator in both cases. I totally Brad 24:48 agree. And here's the thing, not only, I mean brilliant people, but quality humans, yes, and, and so that even makes working with them for me times 10x right? Bryn Rees 24:59 It's. And then coming back to Jeff, you were saying, So what are some of the problems? This is not a actually, Jeff York 25:05 if you don't mind, just want to dig a little more into that, because you're not as familiar with these companies as you guys. What degree is like, the focus on quantum of two of these companies and, and let's actually rewind just a little bit more from New Venture launch, like, I don't think we've ever talked about that on the podcast, right? So you want to Brad 25:20 talk? Yeah, yeah. So Jeff, Jeff actually launched new venture launch five years ago through a grant from the intuitive foundation I took over from Jeff. This will be my third year. So grant funded where we can actually provide funding for some of these startups, a legal foundation, and any sort of mentorship that they need, and really get them moving. And it's truly incredible. So from last year, I think every venture, these are not teams, these are not student teams. Every venture is still moving forward, and the quantum ones are gaining great traction. And the really cool thing about the class is, is that it's open to the entire cu ecosystem, right? Do Jeff York 26:00 you still require the applicants to represent at least two disciplines on cu campus? I Brad 26:06 just leave it open, and it just is dependent as to what the pool is. Okay? Great. So last year, we had 60 applicants, and we took 20 and range, yeah, it ranges from we had a sophomore who had won the US Robotics Championship twice, all the way to PhD professors, right? I mean quantum professors and postdocs and MBAs, lawyer I mean, or law students. And it's just, it's truly incredible when we put these teams together, and many of them meet it in the classroom and actually move and move forward together. Yeah. Bryn Rees 26:42 So what I love about new venture launch is that very often my group, which is a group of about 25 folks, are working with these innovators, and they've got tremendous technology, but when it comes to product market fit and when it comes to a revenue model, they're they're really needing a lot of help. So they're brilliant, and they can pick this stuff up, no problem. But they've never been exposed to it. Oh no. So having a formal, structured program like new venture launch, and we had a couple companies go through when you were teaching it, too, Jeff and some of them have gone on to do some really great things. First, COVID, Jeff York 27:15 I was like, oh my god, I gotta find better. And that led me over to venture partners. Yeah, it really did, because, like, we were, we were we started the class. We were doing kind of a traditional thing of, you know, oh well, these students have an idea and they want to explore. And this, there's a place for that, absolutely, on campus, and it's the vast majority what we teach. It's like students coming in, they don't really have any experience, they don't really have any technology, they've got an idea, usually bad and they're trying to explore, but we wanted to create something totally differentiated that was actually about real companies. Like, how do we take real companies have links to CU Boulder and launch them? How do we make the transition from the campus to the real world? Yep, and that was the whole goal of the thing. Bryn Rees 27:59 So seeing the progress that Icarus and and Mesa made last year was was tremendous. Yeah, Brad 28:06 I have to tell you, though, as someone that's customer focused, the first time that I talked to a quantum scientist and say, Tell me about your first customer. Look at me like, I'm from Mars, yeah. Bryn Rees 28:16 But I mean, no matter what question you ask, you may get the same answer, which is, how does their science work? Right? Jeff York 28:25 So true. Yeah. So even you're a marketing guy, like, what do you what do you think? Like you ever deal with people that, like are technologists or entrepreneurs, and they just have no idea how to create or you have to try to help them understand how to do this all the time, but the beauty never happened to me. No, no, Ethan Decker 28:44 obviously, obviously. The beauty of what I've I've learned, and what I've started to do is I figured out how to give those folks an intuitive, personal understanding of how some of these mushy, emotional things really work, so that it's not abstract. It's not the data trying to persuade them or convince them of something, and especially when it comes to things like mascots, right? Mascots seem silly. Mascots seem illogical. Let's talk about the features, the benefits, if it's in B to B, we're dealing with rational agents and large committees and procurement departments. But you know what, all those people go home and watch True Detective. They like they like TV, right? They like interesting things probably Jeff York 29:33 watch. It's the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown, exactly. Ethan Decker 29:35 And none of them know what brand of toilet paper they probably wipe their butts with nor do they know that brands story, nor do they know the features and benefits of where it's manufactured Jeff York 29:47 that made me weird? Yeah, absolutely, Ethan Decker 29:52 I've done this and at this point quantitatively, and I have good quantitative data that that it's like one in 200 That knows what toilet paper they Bryn Rees 30:01 really use. I love where you're taking us Ethan, which is like the psychological side of your customer, right? And what is their experience exactly? Something that we talk a lot to our founders about is empathy and and getting out of the let's just, let's just be real. It's kind of like a self absorption with our own work and our own product, product, our own technology, and completely put that to the side and say, Who is this person across from me? What is their world? How do they make decisions? And really try and have some kind of like resonance with their experience bingo Ethan Decker 30:35 and most people can't find their car keys in the morning, so they're not going to really dig into all the features and benefits of your product or company. So make it simple. One of the phrases I use, especially with engineering types, is a when it comes to a business or brand or all of those aspects of marketing, you gotta overthink it, and then you've gotta under think it. You've gotta radically under think it, for instance, most of us probably Jeff York 31:04 actual insight. Ethan Decker 31:06 Most of us can't tell the difference between State Farm and Farmers Insurance when it comes to their features, their products, their services, but Jeff York 31:13 we know they're bad. We know their mascots, yep, yep, flow and whatever. The guy right guy that was in whiplash, the Ethan Decker 31:26 mayhem guy, the meerkat. Guy in Europe, right, right. We know all those things, because this is, this is, think about it, a very complicated financial service that is used when it's, yeah, when, when stuff goes really bad, like your house gets demolished or someone gets injured. It's insurance, right? And they figured out that, okay, we have to underthink it, radically. Underthink it so much so that if your brand name is Geico, your logo shouldn't be an elephant or a giraffe. It should be one letter away, a gecko, Geico Gecko. That's how underthinking they got to do it, because it's not like any of us are dumb. It's just that even when it comes to our own insurance products, we don't really want to give that much time and attention to it. We want to make it easy and trust that the company will be there when stuff goes bad. Brad 32:18 I think it should be called Frelk Did Brynn see the frog? Did you? Yeah? Chance to check this out. Jeff York 32:26 I mean, I've got them on all my larva. I've got one on my guitar. They're awesome for those Ethan Decker 32:31 listening at home. The frolic is the logo for Applied brand science. It is a kind of version of a jackalope, I guess. Yeah, it's a frog with elk antlers. It's Jeff York 32:40 awesome. Yeah, it is. Brad 32:41 So I've been working with scientists for a long time, and large part of my investing life. And I will tell you that if you get and I think I've mentioned this to Bryn before, if you pay a scientist about 150,000 a year, you give them a world class lab and a great pizza every day, you will never see them again, right? You won't, they'll be, they'll be so happy. Is that an insight, Jef? Jeff York 33:05 You know, we don't got a paper. I think that's actionable, though. Yeah, I think there are people in the world that can afford to find a scientist and afford to get them a pizza and a desk, yeah? And they probably be a lot better off doing that than sitting around and coming up with their ideas, yeah, but Brad 33:19 the world class lab, though, actually helps quite a lot. Jeff York 33:23 Seriously, though, I often mean, you know, we're here. We're here in Boulder. For those of you not from Boulder, it is a wash in high net worth individuals, many of whom want to talk to people like me about their ideas, like when we're at a party or whatever, and their ideas are pretty bad, because they're not based around anything. They're just like, I got this idea, and because I came up with it, it's good, it's a good idea. If we build it, there's no there's no underlying I think this is the, this is why I'm so excited about the direction of working more between business and engineering, because it tends to be the case in my experience. And these are really crude generalizations, but, but but having been teaching here for like, 13 years, tends to be the case. Their engineers absolutely understand how to make things work. They will not have survived long enough to make it into one of my classes. If they have not gained that level of understanding, the engineering curriculum is just too much. They won't get there. The Business students tend to have good ideas about how to they know how to build a revenue model on Excel. They know they should have a brand, and they know that pitching is important. But their ideas are tend to be outside the laws of physics if they're technology based. And so when you bring these two disciplines together, and I think the next step is trying to teach the same people both disciplines. Yeah, because bringing the teams together is one thing, but imagine programs that teach people all right? Yes, you're going to have to learn to a certain level of competence engineering skills as well as business skills. I mean, I think that would be something that would really potentially change the world. In a lot of ways. And I And when Bob Dobkin, the founder of intuitive foundation, I sat in his house and he told me that I think five, six years ago, because I was going out there and talking to him about potential gift to the University, I nodded and smiled and said, Yes, Bob, of course, you're right. He's so much more right than I ever thought he was, you know. Brad 35:19 And I spoke to Bob six months ago, and he's thrilled about the work that we're doing. I mean, he's thrilled. I mean, so Bob effectively invented the the computer chip. So he looks at the outcomes of new venture launch, Jeff York 35:30 and then spent the next 50 years trying to work with business people. Yeah, right. Brad 35:35 I mean, seriously and, and he's actually met with some of our team members, including Mesa Quantum. Yeah, right. So he's just, he's he's great. So it's fun. I like Jeff York 35:46 the COVID. Ethan Decker 35:46 Oh, that's the early snow. Well, no, sorry, the September snow. It is a pear based and bourbon based cocktail. It's got a bourbon. It's got some wild turkey 101, which is my go to for good Kentucky bourbon. Really, it's got Poor William, which is unaged pear brandy from France, a little bit of sweet vermouth, and then some homemade pear and vanilla syrup that I made. It's like, it's Bryn Rees 36:18 really incredible. Ethan, really Brad 36:20 incredible. Ethan Decker 36:25 Yes, Jeff York 36:26 yeah, the first time we were going to come here, we were like, This dude's garage. Like, sit and drink. Yes, great. It's not some dude. I mean, it is some dudes garage, but it's also, Brad 36:40 It's a great bar. Jeff York 36:40 I think the best cocktails and possibly the best bar in all boulder. Yes, Brad 36:44 are there other speakeasies in Boulder? You Ethan Decker 36:46 don't know if any. I think they're, they're at least a couple other garage bars. That's know how Jeff York 36:52 that this is, this drink is amazing. Different patrons. Ethan Decker 36:55 They've had. I've had about 200 folks come through that I've met just because they were interested in trying out some cocktails. Yeah, now they're members, Jeff York 37:04 cool. Would you be having a Halloween gathering? Ethan Decker 37:07 We will be having a Halloween gathering. Oh, yeah, excellent. I Jeff York 37:13 will come make zombies go to cocktail, and it's thematic, right? Brad 37:19 Check this out. Joel. Jeff York 37:22 Joel, I Joel's in Brad 37:24 the back with his feet up on the desk. He's all good. Well, Jeff York 37:27 so Okay, so now we'll rewind back to where we're I'm getting better at this, like, keeping up with where I distracted everybody from. So not necessarily problems. But what do you think are like, some of the obstacles like that we face that we got to kind of prepare for in the coming I've been working on the strategy for the business school for the last like year or so, and so I know what I think. I'm just curious to get your perspective right. Like, you know, as far as being an entrepreneurial ecosystem, see you advancing itself in entrepreneurship and innovation. What do you think are some of the obstacles we face? You Bryn Rees 37:58 know, some of them are a little cliched, but I think that they're true, right? Sure, we talk a lot about, you know, embracing failure and celebrating failure, at least in the entrepreneurial community. I don't think the university is really there yet, like, in terms of, like, let's, let's, let's, let's experiment, let's try things and let's figure out, you know, what doesn't work and let it go. I don't think, I think we're still, we still got a waste. Jeff York 38:24 Sorry, I'm saying awesome, while you're saying that. Sorry. This was just, I was like, that's awesome. University isn't there yet. Ethan's day of the dead dog, of the dead aloe. Ethan Decker 38:35 That was a gift from a patron. Jeff York 38:37 That's awesome. So, okay, so that's, that's kind of tough. It's tough to people that don't understand, like, the vast majority of these things are not going to work, and that's okay. Like, that's the price we have. It's, Bryn Rees 38:49 well, actually, actually, I was on the way over here, I was thinking about distillation, right, and how that works. So I was, you know, we were talking about, yeah, you know how you're a nerd when it comes to Halloween, I'm a nerd about a lot of things. And one is that, you know, I spent a lot of time in a chemistry lab doing actual distillation, right? And it's like you're separating impurities out of something that you want. And that's what we're doing in entrepreneurship, right? But in order to do that, we've got to have a process to apply, to apply the heat, right, right? And knowing that some things are not going to go forward, yeah? And that's, that's Jeff York 39:24 a much larger volume of liquid to start with, that's right, Bryn Rees 39:28 with a lot of junk in it, yeah, with a lot of things you don't want, yeah, but those Brad 39:31 successes may ease the way in the future, right? I mean, if you how many companies were you working with? Like, 10 years ago? Bryn Rees 39:39 10 years ago, we probably did about five startups a year, and that's so now about seven times faster. So it's a, it's a, it's a big change. That's awesome. Brad 39:47 I mean, so just in the VC world, that basket is going to lead to success, right? And Unknown Speaker 39:52 nothing, let's say, develops culture more than than success, right? And having one person say, you know, my my colleague, did it, I'm definitely. Going to do it. But also, I think the low hanging fruit is we've got to celebrate the successes. So I was counting up the other day in a internal meeting about how many unicorn companies have come out of the research labs at CU Boulder, seven, really, seven unicorns, right? And like, who knows that? Nobody knows that. Brad 40:23 I didn't know that, right? That's incredible, yeah, so, so I first met Brynn, actually on a phone call before Eric and I went to the Weizmann Institute on Tel Aviv, yeah, and the whitesman had hired the Deming center to help them commercialize technology. And when I had the call with you, and I was not, it was not in person. I think it was a zoom call that I'm thinking as we went through this list. Though, in my head, you're hitting everything that I like, and I'm thinking, I like this guy, and so after that, first of all, testing it at Wiseman was a great success. We just signed another contract with him, actually, okay, but the techniques that you use are they're in commonalities with everything that we're doing, right? I mean, there is a methodology behind all this, right? That works? Unknown Speaker 41:04 Yep, actually. I mean, I think the universities in Israel are known for being some of the most mature when it comes to translating technologies and commercialization. And what we believe is our most innovative programs embark, which is a deep, deep tech startup creation program. We haven't seen anybody else do anything like that in the US, but after a few conversations with some of our advisors, we learned that Technion University had done something. I Brad 41:33 didn't know that, right? Yes, yeah, really cool. I actually mentioned all of my students somehow take a look at the portfolio at Venture Partners, because there might be something in there for you, right? I mean, everybody needs to be aware that you can search this and and go through Venture Partners with a very favorable licensing agreement and start something Jeff York 41:55 up, wow, action website. I think this because we do. I mean, what little we know of who listens to this podcast, and if you do, make sure you give it a five star ranking right now, I think so. Well, yes, until maybe tonight, because there's no pumpkin beer, and people are gonna be sorely disappointed. They will be the guy with the disappointed, the guy with the pumpkin tattoo is gonna be really upset. That's my favorite guys that's ever written to us, I was going to say that is actually, in reality, an actionable insight, especially for our alums. I think that I do know some of them listen to this, you know, coming back and being able to look at those opportunities to get into that embark program, yep, like, let's say you've gone and had some success. You've done well or or maybe not. I mean, whatever. And you're looking to really change the direction your career. You're looking to get involved in the start. I mean, this is a huge opportunity. Yeah, this is not open. I don't think it's open to just anyone, right? Well, it's Unknown Speaker 42:52 competitive, so anybody can compete, but it's got about a 10% acceptance rate right now, or maybe a little Jeff York 42:58 I just had a former student come through, and I was really excited. He made it through. He did, yeah, so that was and he's coming back after, I think, seven years. Yep, I'm really happy for him, because he was like, Oh, this is, this is really cool, yeah. So, Unknown Speaker 43:10 and, you know, I have seen some research institutions, but actually more of the federal labs that, you know, they'll put a listing of their technologies up on a website, but I think that is not going to be compelling for most people, right? And so what we're doing with embark is, you know, taking an innovation that's usually got hundreds of 1000s, if not millions of dollars of research funding behind it, right? So you're kind of, you're hitting the ground running, right? You don't need that years of R and D to generate your product, but you're also joining a really well developed ecosystem, right? You can, you can go into new venture launch. You can participate in other campus competitions and get several $100,000 in non dilutive funding. You can pitch to our venture fund, buff gold ventures participate in our startup accelerator. So you're, you're, you're joining a community, right? And a really fantastic community in Boulder, it's not just, Hey, you get some tech. Jeff York 44:04 Oh yeah. The advantage of being in Boulder too is like, I mean, yesterday, I was meeting with a current student, and you were at some brewery, and I saw two other entrepreneurs I knew, and she was trying to talk to me about this initial idea she had, and she had talked to me about and had a beer. I was like, Okay, go here. Pitch this guy on. And she actually got some really good advice and some offers to help with her mind. And the Brad 44:26 other part of Boulder that I didn't realize, which I found out this week, is this week, I had a tour of NIST. I had never been in. I'd never been well, I've driven by 1000 times, right? I'd never been in the gate. So you pull up and the guy has you open all of your doors, your hood and your trunk. They said, Go wait in this office while they check your car. It's like going to the airport, but once you get in, I Unknown Speaker 44:47 do that to you. When you go there, pretty much that's just you. Brad, yeah, it Brad 44:52 was incredible. It was truly incredible. We've been to NREL. Never Jeff York 44:57 Oh, we gotta go over to NREL. Yeah, that'll really blow your mind. Yeah, so I Brad 45:00 mean Chocolate Factory renewable, but talk about an ecosystem, though. So we have entrepreneurs, there's money, there's there's brilliance here. There are ideas, multiple Jeff York 45:10 national laboratories, pits and stems. Yes, some Brad 45:15 of this is kind of this random happening as well that has come together to build something incredible, right? Jeff York 45:21 I think so. Yeah, you know, guys, any other halloween thoughts you want to share? I mean this, I gotta say this is perhaps the least spooky episode we've ever done on Halloween. Unknown Speaker 45:31 So what are you gonna be? Jeff, well, I Jeff York 45:35 am always the same thing. I'm the storyteller because I run this blood on the clock tower game, and I run the game. And the game is the storyteller is the first person to die. Their body is found impaled on the minute hand of the clock tower. And then my ghost actually leads everyone through the rest of this. How long does this take? It takes about two and a half hours to run the game. Davis, it's pretty great, though. Anyway, well, anything you want to add on, add on Halloween wishes. Ethan, any parting thoughts? Ethan Decker 46:03 Good libations to all, Jeff York 46:05 yes, Joel Davis 46:07 Jeff, give us a good horror film recommendation. Jeff York 46:10 Oh, okay, so you know, Brad needs a horror film recommendation. This is actually not good for Brad, but if you like horror films, I would say there's one called barbarian that came out last year that's quite good and not what it seems at all. If you really want a good horror movie, in my opinion, 824, you can't go too wrong with most of their horror films. In particular, the bitch or the witch. Stylize the bitch. Emily, you seen that? Emily Iliff 46:39 It was disturbing. Jeff York 46:41 What were your thoughts on the vet? Emily, Emily Iliff 46:42 I think I saw it when I was, like, a freshman in college. Perfect. I Jeff York 46:47 showed my kids when they were, like, 12. Emily Iliff 46:48 Um, well, I watched it with my it was me and my family's the whole first time seeing it. But the main takeaway is that it's disturbing, yes, and weird, yeah. Kind of makes you want to, like, crawl out of your skin, but it's great. That's what you're going for, Jeff York 47:04 exactly, exactly. So check out the bitch. Bryn Rees 47:07 One too. Great. This one, I can't shake it. This is from like, 10 years ago. It's called the baba Duke. Oh, yeah. So this is, I can remember 24 watching this with with some friends, and one person leapt up in the middle, ran away, and we never saw her. And, and, and I think it's deep too. You know what happens? Jeff York 47:36 No, it's, I mean, that's the thing. Is, there's some commentary going on underneath, absolutely. And there is in the bitch too. I mean, I think a truly great horror movie. I mean this, this goes way back to, like the universal monster movies, or even before, but, but really, uh, George uh Romero perfected it with the the zombie movies, Dawn of the Dead, right? Having a parallel social commentary going on at the same time as the movie itself. And that makes it disturbing on a whole different level. And that's what's a great horror movie is, in my humble opinion. So hey, if you listen to the podcast, what you're gonna want to do is set all this horror aside. You're gonna want to reach out, come to Boulder before it gets snowy, and you're gonna wanna see all the murals. And what? How can I see murals in Boulder if I wanted to see I mean I can't walk! Brad 48:18 No, I think electric bikes, are the only way, right, Jeff? Jeff York 48:22 Electric bikes, because, I mean, clearly I'll be too inebriated to walk, so I have to ride an electric bike, because that's safe. If you need to do that, you want to go to jdjoyrides.com if you want to go to a place that has no pumpkin beer whatsoever, and they're very proud of it, liquid mechanics, check them out. Liquid mechanics.com Those are our two sponsors for the podcast. Maybe we'll be able to get pits and stems the sponsor eventually. There we are, but yeah, and once again, I'm Jeff York. I'm faculty director at the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship at the University of Colorado. Boulder. I Brad 48:56 am Brad Warner, and I'd like to thank both Ethan and Bryn for being here, and Emily as well. Joel, you too. So it's great to see all of you. Thank you very much, and we'll see you next time. Jeff York 49:06 Absolutely Happy Halloween, everybody. Dona L 49:10 This episode of creative distillation was recorded on the front porch of the Chautauqua mission house at the reversing the arrow conference held in Boulder in June 2024, Jen's paper challenging what we think we know, theory and evidence for questioning common beliefs about the gender gap in entrepreneurial confidence was published in June 2022, in Entrepreneurship, theory and practice. Check the show notes for a link and learn more about Jennifer Jennings on her faculty page at the University of Alberta website. We'd love to hear your feedback and ideas. Email us at CD podcast@colorado.edu Them, and please be sure to Subscribe to Creative distillation wherever you get your podcasts. The creative distillation podcast is made possible by the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship at the University of Colorado, boulders, Leeds School of Business. For more information, please visit deming.colorado.edu, that's D, E, M, I, N, G, and click the creative distillation link. Creative distillation is produced by Joel Davis at analog digital arts. Our theme music is whiskey before breakfast, performed by your humble host, Brad and Jeff. Thanks for listening. We'll see you back here next week for the next round of creative distillation. You.